@dwilburn - hey

I dont know your scenario well enough - but thinking within the box - maybe you want to leverage prerequisites? A person has to complete your WBT before they can even interact with the ILT and be put into a session?

@dwilburn Sorta drastic, but what about a proctored setup? I know that Docebo partners with a company to offer this.

The other approach is to be a bit of a meany, and make the person repeat the eLearning and reschedule the ILT. I’ve done that.

We have pre-requisites set. They HAVE to complete the training before attending the ILT. But the learner that attends the ILT is not the one that took the pre-requisites.

I understand. It cost money for the vendors when their people are not in the field. Then add the challenges / costs of traveling to training. We are addressing this piece in other ways.

For example, if you are selling an item on Reddit, you have to write today’s date on a piece of paper, with your username and take a picture of it. It is not perfect.

I had try to think of something like this, a bit like proctoring, where the system takes a picture. But then the someone could just upload a picture that is saved.

It is becoming more and more of a problem. The students arrive at class without the knowledge for the class to be productive. But if we put all of the training in the ILT it will be a 2 week ILT versus a 3 day ILT.

@dwilburn Here’s a wild idea … what if they had to go thru a phone interview? Operationally very challenging… If they don’t pass the phone interview, then they can’t travel to ILT.

I’d also do some communication programs with the vendors to say that the behavior won’t be tolerated and that there is some type of consequence for them if they get caught.  For us, it was about sharing an ID that is issued after our installers completed their training. We were having dealers steal the ID from the installer and then fire the installer but keep using the ID.  We cut a few of the dealers off for fraud, and then updated policies and terms and conditions when we launched our Docebo platform. Just having to acknowledge a few things coming into the site has helped.

Dave,

Interesting challenge. There is always going to be some loose link with ILTs has always been my opinion, but I think you can tighten up aspects of it you can minimize your risk. Here is a question - can you enforce MFA (multifactor authentication)? This will always be a loose link if you cant beef up your security.

MFA is better than not doing it - and the system does support it. BUT it also puts you at risk if people walk out of your training.

And then one last question - is this the exception? Where you can govern with those vendors? Or is it what is happening with many? If it is happening with many, I would be doing some multifactor step for in person training as well and drop on your audience questions for them like 5 times during the actual session to ensure they aren't a flyby attendee that was told to attend for someone else but they do not participate (as in don't give credit for the ILT without a level of regular participation).

I see where you are going but we are looking for something scalable. It looks like we are going to have to go down a proctoring path with something that captures picture and IP. 

Our company already requires MFA, this is one of the ways that we noticed the problem. 

The Learning Plan has 17 e-Learnings that have to be completed before the learning can attend the ILT. After attending the ILT they are “trained”.

People have been showing up to the ILT unable to login to the system (typically on their phone). One of the first steps is to authenticate with MFA, and they do not have it installed.

In other cases, it is VERY clear that the students are not familiar with some of the basic elements of the e-Learnings.

The learners are being trained to install our products into our customer’s environments. The e-Learnings cover some items that our customer requires. Others are content that is needed to be ready for the ILT. 

On the one hand we could teach everything in the ILT, and that would make the ILT twice as long, impacting the vendor’s revenue.

@KMallette and @dklinger - thank so much for sharing your thoughts!

@dwilburn - I am only going to assume:

• that the instructor enforces a hard stop. 
• the only other thing that I can think of is what happens with other critical path training, a person shows up with the wrong X, they should be sent away until they complete X.
• that you are building in the time to check before the ILT to avoid a disruption
• if there are repeat offenders - work with those companies to explain this is what is available.

Beyond that I would think looking at the curriculum to understand if there are nice to haves in the content that could be shoved up front of your ILT may help. If a person shows up without the details necessary then they are good to do some of the elearning right then and there in a waiting space.

I am sorry that I am spit balling, but I can only imagine what the miss can feel like when it happens.

@dklinger - I completely agree with you, and what @KMallette said about the need for consequences.

This is something that we were concerned about happening but recently saw clear evidence confirming that it was happening. At that time I dug through Audit Trail to look at IP Addresses. It was not able to give us clear evidence but it implied that something was going on.

We talked to our account team and they mentioned a proctoring solution called Honor Guard (possibly one word) that I hope to find out more about at the Inspire conference.

We are looking at finding a way to reward users who demonstrate the required skills by reducing their training load, thus reducing the “cost” to the vendor (our training is free, the cost is the learner’s productivity).

As mentioned, we also need to adjust our communications with the vendors, especially when this is detected. I have my hands full managing the system and I do not know what the response in the ILT was. 

@dklinger and @KMallette - I just ran across this, are you familiar with it?
Activating & managing the E-signature app – Docebo Help & Support

@dwilburn I have not used this. Reading over the KB article just now, I can see that it might be helpful for your situation… certainly something to beta test with those partners whom you have experienced issues. On the devil’s advocate side, however, I can see that a savvy admin could get work around it to continue completing the courses by proxy.

...but it’s free, Honor Guard isn’t. (I did speak with Honor Guard at Inspire 2023, and I really liked their product. Seemed well considered and fairly simple to use for what it was doing)

i am familiar with it - havent used it. If we need to support an important FDA requirement with certain types of learning, we will enable it.

@KMallette - I agree, if they are already working around Microsoft Authenticator, it means they have access to the learner’s email. So this may not help.

Thanks for sharing the information about Honor Guard, I assumed it was not free, but there may be bigger picture issues that drive the discussion on the cost.

I am also suggesting changes to our terms and conditions to spell out the repercussions (as suggested by @dklinger ). But first have to figure out what our possible options are.

We are looking at finding a way to reward users who demonstrate the required skills by reducing their training load, thus reducing the “cost” to the vendor (our training is free, the cost is the learner’s productivity).

Have you considered doing some gamification approaches? Or would that be a little too “kitch-y”.

@dklinger - we do not have any of the gamification stuff setup. Please help me understand how that could help?

Hi Dave

Something you may consider doing is using “Groups” based upon user “Course Status” to enroll users in the ILT.

Conceptually you’re using “Groups” to build your pre-requisites.

If you feel this might help or need more details on how to set this up, let me know.

Thanks!

Dave

@Dlibengood - it is a great idea - dont even give em access to see the ILT until they complete it - the prereq. In that way the only people that can be at the door is the user him/herself. 

@dwilburn - this is what I was envisioning/meant about MFA by the way...you can have a better feel for who is at the door. I apologize if that got lost in my description

So with gamification maybe you can pass praise for companies that continue to get though things with a badge system or something...encourage engagement with following the flow of your business.

If they dont get a badge - maybe thats the piece that tells you that those companies are the concern.

Good luck with this. Maybe we can catch up at inspire.